Sony PS3? Bye-Bye Linux !!....

[Brocman]

*crushed by giant wall of words and triple posts*

[Deslock]

"For those regarded as warriors, when engaged in combat the vanquishing of thine enemy can be the warrior's only concern. Suppress all human emotion and compassion. Kill whoever stands in thy way, even if that be Lord God, or Sony itself. This truth lies at the heart of the art of combat".

This is the heart of it. No company should have the right to take something away, that you paid damned hard earned money for, without giving you some form of refund or compensation for it. And then have the nerve to "blackmail" you for it if you don't agree with it. And even worse, ignore you if you complain about it, and the tell you if you don't like it, just remove your PSN account, and stop going to their websites.

I've worked retail for years, and no store I know of would ever dare tell this to their loyal customers.

"You bought a bad container of sour cream? Well, fuck off, and don't shop here anymore".

In real life, if they actually said that to you, would you continue to spend your money on them?.

Sony said this whole debacle started because they were worried about "pirating". Like I said before, if this was a huge problem for them, please show me one "pirated" PS3 game, or a network of pirated PS3 games on the entire internet for download.

Can you go into Wal-Mart right now and buy a Blu-Ray burner, and a stack of Blu-Ray discs to pirate your games online?.

And this issue is why Sony pissed off millions of customers over?

There is no doubt in my mind if I even pissed off one customer that bad I'd be fired. With barely a notice.

So why should we let Sony "off the hook"..?

Because we accept any "forceware" they ram down our throats, because it's "free", even though we paid more money for more features, that they see fit to take away from us ?.

Gah, maybe it's me, but I don't like the taste of Sony's Kool-Aid.

And I'm not alone.

[Deslock]

So now Sony is officially being sued.:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/29/sony-taken-to-court-over-ps3-other-os-removal/2#comments

I didn't want to update after reading about 3.0 did to our machines. I was against this "mandatory" firmware before this whole "Other O.S." debacle.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE9JcwdEx_M&feature=related"]YouTube- BREAKING NEWS[/nomedia]

For those that say "Des, it's a gaming console..Nothing more...":

From Sony's CEO at the time:

Kutaragi's comments echo a recent Phil Harrison interview in which he commented: "We believe that the PS3 will be the place where our users play games, watch films, browse the Web, and use other computer functions. The PlayStation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC."

The whole article: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...php?story=9642

Sony has no right to do this "mandatory" update bullshit that will remove "paid for features", or blackmail customers from the PSN, or potentially brick owners machines, without any form of proper refund whatsoever.

I bought games and such from the PSN with my own hard earned money. Now, since I refuse to "update", and let them, in my "opinion" ruin my machine, I can no longer use what I legally paid for, or even get online and play with my friends?. I can no longer buy any new Blu-Ray movies, Games, or get online because it will detect what "update" I have, and lock me out of my previously owned games until I "update" ?.

And now they come up with a EULA, that says they can change things on your PS3, and remove features that you legally paid for at any time, and not even let you know about it?

And you PS3 owners are okay with that !!??!!!

I'm just baffled by all of this.

And like I said before, even if I decided that I wanted to download this "mandatory" firmware bullshit, and it bricked my machine, like thousands of other PS3 Launch owners, it would be by their own words..."My fault".? And be forced to pay them $150.00 to fix their mistake ?, to only get it back with their "mandatory" forceware installed on it?

And honestly, all you PS3 guys are okay with this??!!!

If this lawsuit fails, how long before Sony removes your B/C? After all, it's not in their own financial interests. They can put PS1 and PS2 games in the PSN store. It's not in their own interests to continue to support that feature either, like Linux. Or remove movie playback, because you "might" be playing pirated movies?

Do you think I'm joking..? Sony also promised that they would support Linux, and that feature wouldn't be taken away.

Why couldn't Sony just give us choices, or options?.

The choice to change font sizes., the choice to change Icon size, The choice to remove extra clocks, or the annoying useless ticker, or unneeded links to the PSN store? As a customer, is that really too much to ask for ?. Honestly?

As I said before, Microsoft will let me, why not Sony?

Is that really too much to ask for?.

Honestly?

[Zabka]

DES, not paying for bricked machines is a travesty. The rest? I don't really care. Bc is an important feature to some, especially since it was part of the early appeal when the ps3 had no titles worth owning. After that? I don't care.

There are files made in old software that can't be read on new software. I built a tape cassette collection when I was a kid, but no stereos play them anymore. It's part of progress.

For the Linux stuff? I can see why some people are upset. But Sony screwed up in offering it altogether. Their software broadly sucks and the effort used to update these things while trying to keep up with ensuring that bad stuff doesn't happen to the Linux using machines is just not worth it.

I play games. I watch DVDs. I watch netflix. I stream movies from the pss. That's what my ps3 does. And to update it to keep it working with new stuff is fine by me. The thing I am most disappointed by us how crappy the browser is.

Bricked from update should be repaired. The other stuff? I get it and don't disagree. It's the price paid for early adoption of a product that wasn't robust.

[Deslock]

It's the price paid for early adoption of a product that wasn't robust.

Amen to that brother. Had I only known about all of this in the begining, I certainly would've bought an X-Box. The PS1 was fantastic. The PS2 was amazing. And the "new" PS3 was ASTOUNDING. High Def graphics, ability to play DVD's, BD's, CD's, and both prior game systems discs. Make your own music lists, run picture slideshows off your Camera's SD chip, and even be able to install a computer O.S., and surf the net in your livingroom, on your widescreen !! What was not to love...?:D.

I loved this machine for almost 4 years. Never even once bitched about any update.

Until, 3.0.

It seems to me, that Sony in regards to the overall direction of the PS3, has been misguided since the very begining. How in the Hell can a company come up with a slogan like "it can only do everything", while they're actually taking features away from their media machines..? WTF...? (That's why they quickly came up with this whole "Make believe" nonsense.

It wasn't even that I really minded updating. I really don't. Honestly.

I have my problems about them, like making them all mandatory now. My main concern was these firmware updates bricking launch models. So I just figured I'd wait. Sony is smart technically. Certainly they would figure out what's causing this to happen, and FIX it. And if not, offer to repair the machines at no cost to the consumer, since it was "official" Sony firmware that burned out the Blu-Ray drives on the launch models.

It's now been almost 8 months. And nothing. And I'm still waiting.

I guess Sony marketing just figured people like me would just go out and buy a Slim. ...............Nope, ain't never gonna happen. Not now, after all this.

I've worked retail now for many, many years. And the golden rule of retail, is to make HAPPY repeat customers. Not to make pissed off furious customers, and then ignore them. My stupid cat broke the HDMI port on my old widescreen, so we went out, and bought a brand new SANYO tv.

Almost all the firmware posts are begging for X-game chat, new XMB, and a new web browser. Have for years now. So what does Sony do..? Come up with new mandatory firmware drivers for their new 3-D tv's, like we all just have 4-5 thousand bones to throw down for one..? *Bangs head on desk*

Like in Zabka's quote above, in the true monetary sense, I would've been better off to wait until now to buy a PS3, rather than in the very begining. But at the time, I no prior bad experiences to compare it to. The first two machines were great, and I was truly impressed, both times. With those two prior machines, Sony had never forced us before to download intrusive malware that could potentially change or ruin our machines.

On Sony's official forums now, any posts with the letters "FTC" are all now automatically moderated, and the BBB has given SCEA a grade of "F" for customer satisfaction resolution.

So now I'm saving up for an X-Box. What a damn shame. All I was waiting for was a post saying "We fixed the problems!" I was that naive. :(

And if you disagree with me, and think I'm an idiot, that's okay with me too. I firmly believe that everyone has a right to their own opinion. I'm just a tired old idiot, that really become tired of bullshit being rammed down my throat, and I'm just supposed to "take" it, because it's not worth the effort to fight it.

There's an old saying..."Don't piss on my back, and tell me it's raining."

I have to deal with enough real life bullshit, swallow my pride, to make a living, to have to also "compromise" on my F'n gaming console too.

Toro doesn't tell me that if I don't install these new wheels on my machine, I can't mow my yard with it anymore. The products you buy in good faith, should not be able to "blackmail" you. Wether it be a toaster, or a gaming console.

If I'm wrong, then I guess I'm wrong. But I can, and will, fight for what I believe in. I did it in the Army, and I can damn sure still do it now.

[Zabka]

There are now a couple more lawsuits. Look to see if you can participate.

[RageProphetXIII]

Oh man even more fuel for Sony's fire.......Remember this.


Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force


Just to refresh your memory, the United States Air Force purchased 336 PS3s in 2008 for cell processor research. They loved it so much that they sought to buy 2,200 more to further their supercomputer research - they got only 1,700 in January 2010. But with the removal of the Install Other OS feature, things aren't exactly boding well.

At first glance, the firmware update doesn't appear to be a problem for the Air Force PS3s - they have no need to login to PSN and they sure as hell won't need to organize trophies. But what if the consoles are in need of repair?

Ars Technica went and spoke with the US Air Force Research Laboratory on the matter, and as it turns out, even the folks over there aren't happy with the controversial firmware update. "We will have to continue to use the systems we already have in hand," a representative told Ars, "but this will make it difficult to replace systems that break or fail. The refurbished PS3s also have the problem that when they come back from Sony, they have the firmware (gameOS) and it will not allow Other OS, which seems wrong. We are aware of class-action lawsuits against Sony for taking away this option on systems that use to have it."

[Deslock]

Zabka, Rage, Rep points given.

Thank you all for at least for seeing where I'm coming from.

That's all I can ask for.

I can understand that some may not see the point I'm trying to make, and disagree with me. I'm cool with that. But I give you rep points for being rational, and at least being able to see where I'm coming from.

That's all I could ever ask for.

Thank you guys, and God Bless the DSA!!!!

The best of the F'n best, hands down.

Regardless of which system you own, The DSA F'n rules!!!

Thank you RaTix !!!

[Reaper316]

Des, we have talked on a few occassions and I completely agree with you on what your saying. I'd like to bring a little levity to the situation though, so please bare with me.

Update your system and come play Warhawk with us, LOL! I gurauntee you won't be disappointed in it. We can also give Boss a run for his money after he steals MY TOW!

I hope you got a laugh out of what I said. I agree with you though they shouldn't have done what they did and it's bad business. It looks as if they will be getting theirs.

Later Des!

[Deslock]

Update your system and come play Warhawk with us, LOL! I gurauntee you won't be disappointed in it. We can also give Boss a run for his money after he steals MY TOW!

You obviously don't know how bad I suck at Warhawk, especially in the air..LOL!! . No really, I am that bad.

I can get some good kills on the ground, but in the air, it's like I'm flying a bus. Believe it or not, when it first came out, I was pretty good. Then because of some wierd glitch that they were worried about, they fixed the glitch, and nuked everyone's rank, and reset their counts.

That put a pretty bad taste in my mouth, so I left it alone for awhile. So when I came back to it, by that time there were guys that lived, ate, and breathed "Warcrack", and could fly around and get air kills whilst blindfolded.
I couldn't stay in the air for 9 seconds without having a missile rammed up my tailpipe. So I was forced in a way, to "go to ground".
Which for me is odd, because I'm pretty much a stone cold killer in the air.

I have Secret Weapons over Normandy, almost all the Ace Combat titles, Top Gun, Red Baron, and many others. Put me in a Tiefighter...And You're dead. Period. But for some wierd reason, put me in a Warhawk, and I fly like a retarded goose with a broken wing. The controls are just too strange for me.

And Reaper, it's okay to joke with me. IRL, I love to joke around, have fun, and especially prank people. I have a great sense of humor, and I don't mind one bit to poke fun at myself. At work, I joke around with the girls there, so much that they've almost peed themselves laughing. Just ask Yentis. I love to joke around and laugh. I must be the only Army Ranger, that has a rubber chicken collection. (That's a story unto itself..lol!) :D

That's one of the few drawbacks of the written word. Words sometimes cannot be seen in the context of what you mean to say sometimes. Written words sometimes cannot show the true sense of sarcasm, or funny tone of voice that the original writer meant to convey. Irony, in some of it's simplest forms, can be hard to say just in typed words. Some can read things, that were only a simple joke, and take it as an outright insult. I myself was guilty of this just awhlie ago myself, when someone was joking with me, and I took it completely the wrong way, and I was deeply insulted, even though the person meant absolutely no harm whatsoever. Tonal inflections, and a joking attitude, unless the words are said "just right", cannot be really seen on forums.

One time, on my own website, I posted a message to a dear friend of mine, that I love more than a brother. Just a simple "inside" joke, that I knew he would understand instantly. But I forgot about what I just posted above^.

Some of my members thought I was insulting him personally, and a flame war to end all flame wars erupted. So bad that I was forced to ban some members, and moderate the entire forum. Needless to say I learned my lesson from that point on. It got so bad that people even posted personal stuff about my own pending divorce was posted for all to see. All because one simple "joke".

Most people here don't know that I fully know that I'm full of crap, and I'm just joking around, or that I know I'm sometimes the only one with my opinion about things. I actually got in trouble the other day at work, because one of my bosses was trying to "dress me down" because of something I did, and I (not intentially) laughed at him, and it REALLY pissed him off. And later, when he pulled me a side to talk to me about it, I told him, "Dude, you know I like you, and I certainly respect you, but sometimes you really need to pull that stick out of your butt".

And then he laughed, and could then see where I was coming from, and that I certainly meant no disrespect. We shook hands, hugged, and it was all over, and we're still friends.

So I may from time to time tilt my lance at the Sony windmill, but that doesn't mean that I don't love everyone here. And that can sometimes be misunderstood by people here. (Extra points to those that know where that comes from.);)

But no matter what may happen, I do truly care about what happens to the people here. Times may change, and game systems come and go. But the people of the DSA care about truly important things regardless.

Honesty, Integrity, and honor.

And that is why whatever may happen, regardless of any gaming system at the time, I'm DSA for life.

We may have our differences from time to time, but the people here..the people here...are just a better class.

God bless you all,

Des.

[Deslock]

PS3 Linux Lawsuit Could Cost Sony Billions:

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/05/06/ps3-linux-lawsuit-could-cost-sony-billions/

The scope of the class action lawsuit facing Sony over its removal of PS3 Linux support could include over 10 million consoles, potentially reaching billions of dollars in refunds if everything goes the lawyers’ way.

The law firm handling the case is claiming the console’s high price was due to the inclusion of Linux support, most probably in an effort to increase the size of the final settlement:

“This class definition reflects, in part, that Sony commanded a much higher price for the gaming console based on the functionality of the ‘Other OS’ feature at the time of its launch and trumpeted the ‘Other OS’ feature in its subsequent marketing.

As a result, consumers paid much more for a product than they should otherwise have been charged now that Sony has disabled the ‘Other OS’ feature.”
The firm is urging PS3 owners to hang onto consoles and receipts if they want in on the action.

With lawyers seeking an “everybody in the country who bought the PS3 from the time of launch until March 27, 2010” scope, some 13 million PS3s would be included in the suit.

Even restricting the scope to pre-Slim PS3s, 9 million PS3s could easily be included. Successful suits in less litigious nations seem less likely, but over 30 million PS3s worldwide presents a huge potential liability.

Amazon’s discretionary refund of $100 for lost Linux support sets a threatening precedent for Sony – presumably a court enforced refund would be much less.

A substantial success for such a suit would probably spell doom for the PlayStation – billions of dollars in additional liability would be a huge blow to Sony’s struggling financial position, and in the boardroom would have an even worse effect on the perceived importance of SCE to Sony as a whole.

However much the final lawsuit comes to, it seems unlikely any console will ever officially support a third party OS again after such a fiasco.

[Deslock]

From the forum:

No matter how competent Sony's lawyers may be, they'll only be able to prove what Sony explicitly stated in the openly-accessible patch notes for the firmware update.

Yes, you had a choice. You could either:
-Update and lose an advertised feature (Other OS support).
-Not update and lose other advertised features (PlayStation Network access, the ability to play any games or Blu-Ray discs that require the new firmware).

No matter what, Sony's screwed themselves over. And them changing their EULA with the firmware update after 3.21 to basically state that updates were mandatory certainly isn't going to help them here at all.

I'm personally more worried about Sony's new EULA that allows them to change your console however they want, whenever they want, without warning or permission. Sure you agree to it in the EULA, but that gives them far too much freedom, any and all changes should have to be agreed to by the user on an individual basis.

The new changes to the EULA are in violation of anti-hacking laws and by contract law that makes the EULA unenforceable. This means that Sony's EULA has no effect and you don't have to abide by it. Sony can be brought up on misdemeanor hacking charges if they attempt to autoupdate your PS3 without notice.

Note that both sides are right:
-The consumer wants what he/she paid for.
-The company wants to keep it's products safe in accordance to the TOS. (Any owner should know that in the PS3's TOS, there is a "The PS3 May Not Be Modified...etc" rule there)

My personal opinion is that he should win. It basically puts a clamp down on a really good feature of the console, which in the beginning, Sony semi-boasted said feature. To those who say "But it's only going to forward the advent of piracy on the Playstation 3!!!111", you clearly have no grasp on the situation.

Piracy isn't just the reason people are getting mad, it's the fact that your freedom to use the system has been reduced (An analogy would be to think of China filtering its internet, but bring it to the US, you'd be pretty pissed off about that).

Even if they do manage to get piracy onto Linux (something that doesn't really emulate games well in the first place from what I've seen) there is still a hypervisor in place that limits the Playstation 3's ability to access graphics.

For the ability to play PS3 games that are burned to disc off of torrents and the internet and such, the program that would do this would have to go right out of Linux's boundaries and interact directly with the system, sort of making the claims of piracy on OtherOS a little far-fetched.

In conclusion: for those who blindly ride Sony's back, remaining blissfully ignorant of the whole entire workings of a system, stop it, read up on stuff and THEN make a logical argument.

Whats going to end up happening is they'll go to court, the court will say "Refund your customers" and all they'll do is make a Fund and say "Those who have reciepts can get 20 bucks back and a big fuck you", all the while showing their stiff middle fingers to the courts proving that they can make a work-around so they don't lose as much.

Court or no court this is a lose-lose for consumers. You may have bought the system, but the moment you connect to the PSN, anything they say goes for the most part when it comes to your system, because they are still "developing" content and features for the system.

I personally think that Sony will either settle, or re-install other O.S. for launch owners. I agree with the quote directly above^. I understand perfectly that Sony wants to protect themselves, but in my opinion, "forcing" customers to remove the feature, or otherwise basically lose 80% of their machines functionality with NO form of refund or compensation was the complete wrong way to go about it.

I don't want to see the Playstation brand go down. I figured after the CD Rootkit lawsuit, they'd have learned their lesson. I'm truly astounded at Sony's arrogance about this issue. Not that they did it, but that they literally ignored thousands of people furious about this, and the "mandatory" firmware updates.

I mean it's literally common business sense. If you own a company, and you want to be vital, and thrive, you listen to your customers, and make them happy with your products, and their purchases. It's not rocket science.

I've worked retail for many years. As a representitive of a store, it's my personal JOB to make customers happy. And if they are unhappy, it's my personal JOB to take care of them, or try to find some way to fix their problem within my power, to do everything I can to help them.
And if I ignored angry pissed off customers and turned my back on them, I'd be fired. And rightly so.

But Sony isn't a retail chain. They're a software and hardware supplier, hence their arrogance. If Sony had actual retail outlets, they'd be bankrupt, just like Gateway. There is no Sony store customer service desk you can go to and face a "real" person to voice your complaints. Just a phone number, where you can call and complain to some poor working slob, that in real life, probably agrees with you. But that phone person doesn't have the ability, or power, to help fix your problem with this peticular problem. All they can say is Sony's "official" response.

And I feel soo sorry for those poor Sony customer phone rep people. That's gotta suck having your ass chewed out all day by people that hate this new "update", or all the folks with bricked machines, that Sony refuses to repair that has to do with their own company "forceware". I know that I wouldn't want that job.

If I could talk to an actual Sony SCEA CEO, it would be just to say this:

"Why can't you just give us options?. To turn off stuff we don't like, and add the features we DO like. Why can't we customize our machines {legally} as we would like to? We didn't lease our machines, we bought them. Granted, Sony has the right to control online stuff to stop hackers, but punish the hackers, not thousands/millions of legitimate customers that only use the machine legally.
Don't blackmail us by forcing us all to agree to either remove features we paid MORE for, or we can't buy anything else for it, or get online. We trusted you. Why can't you trust us legal customers?".

Ever since I was in the Military, I hated "blanket" punishments. If you have a problem soldier, you punish/correct them, not the whole Platoon. You don't punish 30 guys, because one is "acting up" and causing a problem. I've always believed in justice, and fairness.

And if you disagree with me, like I said before, that's okay by me. I know it's just my personal belief and opinion.