Concealed Weapon

[k1gibson]

Well I had my class today for a concealed weapon permit. I'll say it was a good class but a little to long ( my opinion ) 6 hrs just class 4 hrs which was video's about all the statues that was ok to go over, but each of us got a book with all of them in there, and then maybe hr of everyone firing weapons

I think they could have went over more about fire arms,safety and actually firing our weapons which we finally did, at the end. You have to shoot 20 rounds in a target at 15 ft pretty easy, they say most all gun battles are 10 ft or less.
There also was a 25 question test.

Heres my silhouette 24 rounds and 24 holes the tears in arm was were the staples were. I was using a colt 22 single action revolver so it was real easy.

[mdg60]

Nice job kg. So, have you decided on which firearm your going to be carrying around?

[nd32479]

Nice center mass to the chest and head!

Good shooting...Kentucky!

[jakewill]

Nice kg I just took my class earlier this year bad part is there's no target practice involved in my area and there were over 200 ppl in the class with me.

[APAT]

Nice grouping KG.

[BOSS]

Good work Kg! If you have a shooting range nearby it's a good way to work on accuracy and overall a fun experience.

[keyser28146]

Best bang for the buck in concealed carry calibers in my opinion:


380:

Keltec's P3AT is tough to beat for a concealed carry piece, they are under $300 and pretty light.

Smith is now making a bodyguard that has an integrated laser sight, but I haven't shot it, and $450 for a 380 is a bit steep for me.



9mm:

Kahr PM9: Nice but a bit heavy, and very expensive... $615 for one last I saw one, and it's still just a 9mm.

Keltec PF9: I own one of these, and though I wouldn't want to get in a gun battle with it due to it's long trigger pull and stiff slide release, it's a decent shooter. Cleaning is very simple, except for the fact that to reassemble you need a razor knife of some sort to pull a pin out of the way. Still, super light and no more difficult to put in a pocket than an iphone, 7 +1 rounds of P+ JHP should be more than enough should it ever matter. With a $300 pricepoint, it's tough to beat this if you want something small an in an affordable caliber.

Glock 26: Great for winter, not the best for spring/summer. It's use of double stack magazines means it's a good bit thicker than the other two mentioned, but you do get 10+1 rounds, and add two more if you get a pearce grip for each mag. Though it's small for a glock, it's still thick and heavy. $500.


40 cal.
Where it's at for me. The speed and muzzle velocity of 9mm with a much heavier bullet. Depending on the weapon, you will more than likely have more recoil than 45ACP, still, 40 cal hits REALLY hard and is very accurate.

Kahr PM40. Never shot one. Kahr's are high, though, and this one clocks in at $650. It's also very small, basically the PM9 or Keltec PF9 size, but in a 40 cal, that translates to a LOT of felt recoil and difficulty aiming.

Glock 27. Same size as the 26, chambered for 40 cal. I have one of these and it's sweet, smooth, never jams and accepts mags from Glock 22, 23 or 27's, meaning you can keep a short mag in it for 9 + 1, or add a pearce grip for 10 + 1, or use a 23 mag for 13 +1 or a 22 mag for ***15 + 1***. It's a sweet gun. Problem is, it's thicker and larger than the Kahr, but in this caliber, that's not necessarily a bad thing. $500, Extra mags $25, Pearce grip $10/mag


.45ACP
Note that ammo for these get really high.

Glock 30: Essentially a slightly larger version of the Glock 26/27 that can push out 10 +1 of 45 ACP in a hurry. Brutal stopping power with a high fire rate and really controllable. A beast, with the same downsides as a 26/27. Avg $600

Glock 36: The only Glock with a single stack mag. Means it's thinner and more easily concealed, same reliable action as the standard Glock. 6+1, runs around $500.



Tips

I recommend Sticky holsters. http://stickyholsters.com/ Yeah, you have to reholster with the weapon by pulling the holster out, but you should NEVER be pulling the pistol out at all anyway.
When you get your CCW, get a .22 pistol with a similar action to what you are going to use. Even 380 rounds aren't cheap. Become an expert with shooting the .22 for 4 cents per round. Switching handguns is a very mild affect on accuracy, you will essentially only need to learn recoil retracement to put successive doubletap rounds on target.

Practice your draw 5000 times before you ever fire your carry pistol. practice 3 feet away from a mirror drawing on yourself, this leaves you aiming at a human sized target 6 feet away... exactly where >90% of gunfights occur.

When you feel your life is threatened, react immediately and with overwhelming deadly force. Shoot until you are the positive the attacker is incapable of attacking. They only have to be able to move a finger a half inch to kill you.

Keep you finger out of the trigger guard until you fire. Trigger discipline can not be overemphasized. Keep the weapon low as to not be grabbed. An attacker with even a small knowledge of Krav Maga can disarm you in less than a quarter second. This is a textbook example of Krav Maga used on an attacker followed up by immediate threat elimination. It's Collateral. Yeah it's a movie, but the weapon technique in that film is extremely accurate for tactical deployment.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCA2ZNDa-hQ&feature=related"]collateral briefcase - YouTube[/nomedia]

[k1gibson]

Thanks for all the info Keyser theirs alot to consider pros and cons

@ mdg not sure I was thinking .380 double action revolver but I need to read more of Keyser post

@Nd I heard that term alot center mass but after about 10 shots in CM I said the hell with this I'm going for the head lol that's all i hear (Broc) shoot them in the face lol

@Jake damn 200 hundred ppl you guys would still be shooting. It was mandatory that we shot 20 rounds

Thanks Apat our target was actually 25 ft instead of 15 which was still pretty easy cause all you had to do was hit the target anywhere in the black.

@Boss I need to find out if there is a shooting range around me

[mdg60]

@keyser, what do you think of the Beretta M92? I was thinking about what kind of gun I would get in the future and to be honest, I am not a fan of Glock. I find that it is not aesthetically pleasing and I really love the feel of the Beretta. It fits perfectly in your hand. What caliber do you recommend most?

[BOSS]

@Mdg: Owning a Beretta myself, I can say it's effective. As you mentioned about the feel, it has to have a firm grasp so different models work better for different people. See which one is light enough/easier to handle. Not really a fan of the heavier guns in general...it just feels like it reduces reaction time and makes recoil more noticeable.

[RageProphetXIII]

Damn KG that paper man sure is dead.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

[keyser28146]

@MDG

The tradeoff to remember with weight is that the less it weighs, the worse the kick (newton's second law) and accuracy (inherent instability). Some of this can be offset with effective muzzle braking, but this doesn't apply to handguns. The main point is, for CCW, that if you ever have to use the weapon, you will be closer than 10 feet, so accuracy and followup rounds tend to not matter so much. The best compensation to handguns other than weight are the spring systems... the latest gen Glocks are really good at this, offering a spring inside a spring that reduces the felt recoil.

For example, my Keltec PF9 kicks harder than my Glock 27 40 cal. It's lighter, and since every action has an equal and opposite reaction, the weaker round pushes back on the MUCH lighter gun harder than the more powerful 40 cal rounds push back on the much heavier glock. Just like throwing a ping pong ball at a bowling ball at 200 mph wont move it anywhere near as much as throwing a baseball at one at 50mph.

A lot of people don't care for Glock grips, and tend to shoot high when using them. Honestly you can't go wrong with Berettas, Smith and Wesson, or Springfield's XD line. All those manufacturers are competitive with each other heavily and most weapons range between $400-600.

Keltec is a slightly cheaper manufacturer, but their CCW weapons are GREAT! They put a serious emphasis on concealment and keeping costs low while still giving a good product. They aren't "tack drivers" but they are solid choices and extremely popular. Most of their weapons range from $250-$400.

Sig Sauer, Kahr, FN Herstal, and H&K are all more expensive, and in the first two cases, you are really paying for the name. However, Sig makes some killer 9mm handguns, the P226 and P229 are both GREAT full size handguns but will run you $800. Kahr Arms makes quite a few of all types, and they are all a couple hundred dollars more than most other manufacturers and it's difficult to tell where the money is going. FN makes some interesting weapons, mostly for police and military, so they don't focus on civilian models so much, a FN 57 for example will run you $1200, and you have little stopping power... they are made for piercing armor. But H&K? KILLER handguns. The USP40 or USP45 for my money is the BEST full size handgun you can buy. Period. But it's full size.



As far as calibers...

.38, 380, and 9mm all are the same diameter, but that is the order of weakest to most powerful. More power = more kick but more stopping power. Some people say you shouldn't carry less than a 380, some say 9mm is the bottom end. It's preference. 50 rounds is around $12-$16 for ball ammo. Since the round is smaller in diameter, you generally get more per magazine.

40 S&W (.40, 40 caliber) and 10mm is the same diameter, that's the order from weakest to most powerful. 10mm is ridiculous. It's made to go through car doors and still penetrate 12 inches of human flesh. If you buy a 10mm handgun, it will almost guaranteed have a non-permanent lifespan. No matter the manufacturer, these weapons fire a round so hot that the recoil tends to damage the slides and create failures about a few thousand rounds. 40 is a really well designed, hard hitting, heavy fast round. 50 rounds for $16-$22 of ball ammo.

.45 (45ACP) caliber is a really big, really heavy slow moving (comparatively) chunk of metal. The recoil is actually softer than the .40, and at CCW ranges the slow moving round wont come into play. Very little penetration compared to the other weapons listed. In fact, a bathroom stall door can actually stop a 45 cal round depending on its construction. 50 rounds of 45ACP will run you low to high 20's for ball ammo.



WTF is Ball Ammo?
Ball ammo, Full Metal Jacket, Military Ammo, all the same. It means the lead bullet is encased in a copper jacket. This is done because in modern weapons Lead would melt in the barrel and affect accuracy from round to round. This stuff is the cheap stuff, and I call it "range ammo".

Jacketed Hollow Points (JHP)?
Yep, more expensive too. You want to carry these in your gun, and shoot a few mags of them to make sure your gun fires properly with them, since some of them can cause feeding issues. The concept is simple. If you had a 40 cal or 10mm with FMJ rounds, there is a good chance that if you hit someone, they would exit the other side. All the energy the bullet carried out of the back of the attacker is wasted and doesn't help STOP the attacker. You want the attacker to stop, so you want 100% of the energy the cartridge puts behind the bullet to impact the attacker. The hollow points acts as flaps, opening up, creating a wider wound channel, and more often coming to a stop in the attacker, delivering all of the energy into the attacker.

P+ designates high power rounds, creating higher pressures in the weapon chamber. Note. Higher Pressures in your weapon. Can affect service life.

I use JHP regular pressure rounds in everything and never fully load any magazine (protects magazine springs) when I'm carrying. I alternate magazines so I don't wear out springs, though it "shouldn't" matter.

The choice of gun, caliber, and bullet really comes down to preference. Don't let anybody tell you any different. I believe the odds of surviving a handgun gunshot would are somewhere around 85%, the key is to STOP THE ATTACKER as soon as possible. I'm personally on the fence about 380's. 9mm is good enough, and honestly, you shouldn't ever need more than a 9mm, but I really do prefer 40. But remember, using P+ JHP's in a 380 will give you somewhere around the stopping power of 9mm FMJ, if not a little more.

[mdg60]

Thanks a bunch Keyser. That was the exact info I was looking for and was very well explained. I can tell you have quite a bit of experience. Thanks again.

[Brocman]

Damn Kg, looks like you shot that paper man once between the eyes too. Nice work.

[Kerry2]

Keltec P11. It's what I've been carrying for the past couple of years. It's only accurate to about 15 feet but any further than that and I probably wouldn't be having to use it. It's small enough to fit in my front pocket and the 9mm rounds are still reasonably cheap.