Speak English

[Rdaug27]

Speak English

Wow this is shocking. I can't believe they got this one right allowing these signs.

[sovereign]

While this I recall seeing this on the news probably close to two years ago, I applaud Geno's for this. :thumbsup:

[RaTix]

BRAVO!!! Personally, I think all places should have those signs. If your in this country for vacation or visiting, fine I can understand, but if your living here then learn the ****ing language. And getting a job at McJuan's is no substitute for taking an actual English course. Why do they always decide to put the one person that speaks absolutely no English on the ****ing drive through window. Why does my order have to be screwed up so they can learn English. Why do they do it? Because they are here ILLEGALLY and don't trust anyone else to turn a blind eye to their stolen or fake socials securities numbers other then good ole' Corporate America.

When I used to be an assistant Mgr of a Pizza Hut way back in the day, we had one of the staff who's social security number came back as bad. We told him about it and the next day he had a brand new, completely different Social Security number to give us. I wonder who's identity and credit suffered because of that. My manager accepted it without question, even though she damn well knew it was a fake. Why? Because you'll work your ass off when you owe the cartels money for getting you in this country. The best is when they tried to pull that "No Hablo" bullshit when you would tell them to do something. If you can't understand the directions I am giving you, you shouldn't be working here. That usually got them to understand the words coming out of my mouth.

And that's how it works too, don't ever think it's not. Usually you will have the gangs or cartels buy houses here and then they setup a 4 person house to hold 20. They over charge for the rooms and also whatever money the tenants might still owe for getting them here. My father works for the building department and they have about 1-3 sting ops a week for illegal rooms and boarders. One place they hit, a closet and the shed out back, yes the SHED out back, were converted to rooms. I feel for them in one way, they are shamefully being exploited by their own people. But serves them right for doing it the right way. I'm gonna end my :rant: now or I will go on forever on why illegals piss me off.

In the immortal words of SOD (Stormtroopers of Death) Speak English or DIE!

[EagleOne]

Sooner or later someone was going to take a stand. I am always telling the guys at work to speak English this isn't Russia. I used to teach English to some of my fellow co-workers who had applied to become U.S citizens. But Rdaug is trying to learn spanish and he is doing pretty good.When I go to Mexico I can never find anyone who speaks English so I have to speak Spanish but I suppose it is like this in ever other country (France-French, Germany-German, Cuba-Communist).


This probably doesn't have anything to do with this topic but one time my father took me to a restaurant in San Antonio which had a sign that read....

"We do not serve Mexicans or dogs"

and what did we do, go to jack in the box and ordered some yumbo yacks.

[Cancer]

[QUOTE=EagleOne;125613]When I go to Mexico I can never find anyone who speaks English so I have to speak Spanish but I suppose it is like this in ever other country (France-French, Germany-German, Cuba-Communist).
QUOTE]

Actually, when I was in Europe last spring, it didn't seem to be that way at all. Almost everyone spoke at least some English. And we weren't in the really touristy areas. We were there visiting family. Even some school girls my brother and I talked to were fluent in English (I'm only a year older than them so it's not weird at all!).

[Capthemfoos]

I think its damn time for this sign. It should have been up years ago. I agree with Ratix; every store should have this sign. I mean, c'mon. Do you see any other country having to learn another language other than their own because the immigration rate is really high? Not to mention illegal immigration. Yeah, those lawmakers in Washington can talk about BS all the time like the nations infrastructure(not downplaying it, but I think ill. imm. is more important), but when they ignore us like this, we have to take our own action. If I owned a store, I would try hard not to have illegals working for me. If you want to move, why don't you do it legally so you aren't busting your ass every day? I can't stop laughing when I see FOX or some other news channel pulling out the violin when an illegal alien gets deported.

[Zabka]

I think its damn time for this sign. It should have been up years ago. I agree with Ratix; every store should have this sign. I mean, c'mon. Do you see any other country having to learn another language other than their own because the immigration rate is really high? Not to mention illegal immigration. Yeah, those lawmakers in Washington can talk about BS all the time like the nations infrastructure(not downplaying it, but I think ill. imm. is more important), but when they ignore us like this, we have to take our own action. If I owned a store, I would try hard not to have illegals working for me. If you want to move, why don't you do it legally so you aren't busting your ass every day? I can't stop laughing when I see FOX or some other news channel pulling out the violin when an illegal alien gets deported.

Cap...everyone thus far in this thread has made their views clear with personal experience and some facts. Couple of points of clarification.

1. Yes other countries do find that they need to learn other languages in certain areas. Migration is not unique to the US. Indonesia and Malaysia is an example. Areas of France are finding it with some of the African immigrants--although those countries are often the ones that have been colonized so that many people already speak French--but that's how it starts often--those who are bilingual start the immigration only to be followed by those who are not.

2. Fox news being sympathetic to illegal aliens? Have you ever watched Fox News?

Also, Cancer---do you know why so many Europeans speak English? Because so many Europeans speak more than one language---often 3 or more. Sometimes it seems like Americans are the only ones who are arrogant enough to presume that everyone else needs to learn their language. It wouldn't hurt Americans to learn another language anyway...although my guess is that the most practical one will be Mandarin.

Finally---Not sure if you guys know Pat's and Geno's. They are two different cheese steak houses that were affiliated with two different Philly mob families. They are awesome. But that used to be an all-Italian part of town...and I am sure that back when immigration first started there, the Italians who all lived there did not speak English. There is a hypocrisy there.

In fact, to point something else out--you guys are all pointing to not being able to speak English as if it is equivalent to being an illegal. How do you distinguish between the illegal and the legal, both of whom as recent immigrants, won't speak the language?

The European enclaves at the turn of the 20th century required a generation of assimilation for English to really take hold as the dominant language. I don't see why we expect this current wave of immigration to do so more quickly. Every wave of immigration previously shared many (but not all) of these same traits.

To clarify--I don't like illegal immigration. I don't believe in amnesty for them. I am not quite sure what to do about the problem, however as no solution is perfect. I also believe that everyone here should learn English. But as a child of immigrants who can't avoid having an accent (because the languages are phoenetically too different), I also am acutely aware of how these issues can sometimes be nothing more than thinly veiled racism. I ask that people try to be mindful of that. My dad wrote a doctoral thesis in clinical psychology and defended his thesis. But he still has an accent. And there some out there who think that just isn't good enough for their racist asses.

[Ditch]

I think rascism has nothing to do with that sign and I fully support it,
the Germans, Russians, French, Japanese, italian,korean,Chinese, etc etc etc etc. all learned english and made the melting pot, why should the Mexicans be any different or get special treatment?

[Zabka]

I am guessing you haven't been to that neighborhood. I lived in Philly for three years.

Racism is definitely part of it...underneath the surface.

[RaTix]

Most people that are planning to LIVE and stay here will make an effort to learn the language. Most illegals are here for as long as they can stay without getting caught and make the money to send back home to live like kings. Those are the ones that do not care to learn English, only enough to get by. Its not the fact that they can't speak English, but that they do not care to even learn. Make a ****ing effort, thats all I'm asking. Why would they when the whole country is slowly implementing bilingual things everywhere for Spanish. Why do I have to hit 1 to hear a message in English. How come almost every product you see has both English and Spanish instructions. I'm sure other countries have a few things in different languages, but not to the extent that we have with EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT.
I think the biggest disrespect is when they try to partition to make Spanish the official language of the US. Of course that would never pass, but still COME ON already. Enough is enough. The day all road signs are in Spanish and English, is the day I form the DSA Militia to patrol our streets and boarders for illegals.

Also, Most other countries learn English because English is the international language of business. So I would say our arrogance is justified. I do think people should learn other languages though. I, Myself recently installed Rosetta Stone to try and learn another language. Looking into German first, then maybe Dutch and Italian (the languages of my heritage). If you know Italian, Spanish is not far off. And I feel better about not having to learn Spanish. It's more the principle of the matter now and thats about as much of a compromise as I'm willing to make in learning Spanish.

Here's a funny side story I need to tell. I have saw the vortex to the end of the universe, and it was oddly right at the corner store down the street from me. One night while buying my beer for the evening there was a Spanish guy in front of me buying a six pack of some crap Mexican beer. He hands the guy at the counter, who is a Haitian and can barely speak English himself, his ID from Mexico that is completely in Spanish. The Haitian tries to tell him that he can't even read or understand the license. The Spanish guy smiles and nods his head and mumbles something like "yeah thats my ID". The Haitian keeps repeating himself that he can't understand or accept it. The Spanish guys keeps smiling like he understands when he really has no ****ing Idea what the other guy is saying. This went on for about 3 mins, to the point where I was about to tell the guy to go get a ****ing Green card thats in English and come back. Eventually the Haitian gave up on trying to explain and just let him buy the beer. If it was me, I absolutely would have denied him.

Now that is a textbook case for the rants above. If this guy was legal, wouldn't he have a green card or some form of US ID that he could use? Of course, but he didn't and he didn't speak a word of English and probably never will. Those are the non-English speaking illegals I'm bitching about here.

[Zabka]

Also, Most other countries learn English because English is the international language of business. So I would say our arrogance is justified. I do think people should learn other languages though. I, Myself recently installed Rosetta Stone to try and learn another language. Looking into German first, then maybe Dutch and Italian (the languages of my heritage). If you know Italian, Spanish is not far off. And I feel better about not having to learn Spanish. It's more the principle of the matter now and thats about as much of a compromise as I'm willing to make in learning Spanish.

That was certainly true for several years. It is less true now, but still largely true. However, its not a stretch to imagine Mandarin taking over that position in the coming decades.

I think learning languages is important because it is a really important way to gain insight into another culture. It's a good way to learn about your heritage. I wish I spoke other languages better...but I was stupid enough to study Latin in high school.

[Deslock]

Ah, but it's so easy to call the "racism" card.

It's become a complex thing nowadays.

I'm only a second generation American, and my family came here legally, and when they got citizenship, they worked their asses of to learn to read, and write english.

They became American.

I can tell you what flag they flew on their house, and it wasn't the German one.
They went through the first world war in Germany, only to get to the U.S., right when the depression hit. Talk about bad luck. Since my Grandfather left Germany to come to the U.S., the ancestral lands we held were considered "abandoned", and forfiet to the state in Germany.

During WWII, my Grandparents were watched and investigated by the government, but their neighbors, when questioned, told them that you couldn't know a better group of American patriotic people, and this was even before they achieved U.S. citizenship. Because several people in my family in Germany at the time were serving in the German Armed forces.

The Japanese Americans were already round up and put in concentration camps here, and they knew the Germans were next if the war didn't end fast.

But the one thing I remember because I grew up in a mixed community, every family, if Irish, German, Russian, and Italian, they all may have spoke their native tongue at home, they all knew and spoke english when about town.

They didn't come here to exploit the system, they came here to truly embrace the "American Dream". One of my dearest friends is of hispanic descent, and told me that most legal hispanics despise the "illegals" and that they call them "beaners". He is active in his local church, married an American girl, and speaks perfect english. And that he doesn't consider himself to be Hispanic, but rather American.

When I was in High school, people called me a Nazi because I was of German blood, and I could speak it perfectly. I find it ironic that I was asked if I was a "nigger lover", because when I was stationed in Germany, my very best friend was a black man.

So now one of dearest friends is Jewish, and we pick on each other all the time, and call each other names in good fun.

Zabka, if you hate someone because of skin color, religious belief, or where they are from, that is indeed rascism, and is wrong in every way.

Asking people that came here illegally, and are by the interpretation of the law as criminals, asking them to at least try to learn the language of the new home where they live isn't rascist. It's called being polite.

What bothers me most of all is that these people are not interested (as a whole) to even bother to learn our language, or our culture.

There is a fantastic Nigerian couple that own a zippy mart down the street from me, and I adore them. And guess what? The speak better english than the natives here. And when I go to eat at the chinese restaurant in town, even though they have a heavy accent, they speak english. They came here legally, worked their asses off, saved every penny, and bought their own businesses, and even employ other Americans to work for them, and pay the proper taxes.

These illegal hispanics aren't here to become true Americans as a whole. They're leeches, I also condemn and despise every company that hires them. and believe firmly that legal action should be taken against them. If these companies wouldn't hire/exploit them, they wouldn't be here in the first place, so you can't just simply blame the illegals as a whole.

I don't blame anyone who lives in a crap place to want to try and make a better life for themselves or their families. I just want them to do it the right, legal way.

I wouldn't dare to move to China illegally, and then demand that they start putting up signs in english, demand that police and other agencies have english interpreters, and when challenged, have the nerve to wave the American flag while living illegally in China.

There was even a recent event where hispanic students at a U.S. school took down the American flag, and ran up the flag of Mexico, and recieved a rather bad beating for it.

Now I cannot lie and say that racism is not at the heart of it for some people, but not just as a whole. Where I live there is a rather large community of hispanics, and I can tell you from where I live, we don't like them because they're hispanic, we don't like them because most of them don't want to even be a part of what this country represents.


Des.

[Zabka]

Des,

I am not going to try to defend the illegal immigrant's motives, or justify their actions. At the end of the day, I do not believe that the lawless immigration of masses of people is appropriate. I have sympathy for the human condition that drives them to such drastic measures. I also have sympathy for the experiences that many many face that doesn't always show America at its best. That doesn't excuse them in any way of not immigrating to our country--or any other one--legally.

However, I do think that people need to be more aware of the underlying current of racism in our country (not unique to America, but it can be pretty ugly here). I guess the distinction is one where some people believe that racism is the extreme condition of hating somebody for their race without any other provocation. I think others, however, would point out that racism is discriminating on any level (not necessarily getting to the point of hatred or violence) on the basis of race. People who wear hoods or shave heads screaming "white power!" aren't the embodiment of racism in our country anymore.

It's this nuance that is often misunderstood by many who would never consider themselves racist. And to be honest, they probably aren't racist people---but that doesn't mean that racism doesn't color and touch their views. Immigration is one of those instances where that is indeed the case.

For example....at this point, we have the blending of two separate but related issues. English only and illegal immigration. English only has been an issue for years in some areas--completely separate from illegal immigration. Miami and areas around had a lot of issues in the 80s when Cuban refugees came in droves and our government offered them amnesty. As they settled in, Spanish became increasingly prevalent and unsettled a lot of people. I recall watching a "Donahue" about this in Miami where he worked a crowd at a stadium. Anyway--you will find such issues have existed in many areas where enclaves have formed during a migration wave.

But the point I am making is speaking English is something that many perfectly LEGAL immigrants seem unwilling to do. There are any number of resaons why some may do so--but in most cases it is because they haven't had to since they have self-contained communities that keep them from needing to. It isn't that different from friends of mine who have lived in Japan for 20 years working for big investment banks and still don't speak Japanese. So is the issue English vs Spanish? or is it illegal immigration? They are not one and the same.

Finally--just to point out something I thought interesting is that Des, you pointed out one of the most racist acts ever perpetrated by the US Government in your description of your parents' immigration to the States. The internment of Japanese Americans during WWII. These were American citizens---mostly second generation--who were taken from their homes, stripped of their properties and put into prisoner camps. All the while, many of the men were fighting in US uniform in the European theater with great distinction in the 442nd.

Racism today isn't on that extreme--although post 9/11 I heard people trying to make arguments for a very similar situation for Arab Americans. I think most people take comfort passing the litmus test of not hating with such venom. However, I find it incredibly frustrating that people turn a blind eye to racist motivations and actions simply because it doesn't reach that standard of hatred. As a result, the pervasive racism of today is more insidious with most people waving it off as a simple playing of a card--which implies much less significance to the behavior. In fact, it is even more dangerous because it exists under people's noses without their own acknowledgment.

It really shouldn't be surprising how much racist crap you hear on mics in online games. The anonymity makes people feel more secure.

Anyway, my point isn't about people being racist. My point is to highlight that racism often colors this particular subject. And to be perfectly honest, I find myself guilty of it all the time.

[RaTix]

So is the issue English vs Spanish? or is it illegal immigration? They are not one and the same.

I actually think in this case the two matters are one in the same. If not why are we arguing about Spanish and not German, or Italian, or Haitian. The fact that millions of illegals have fled here from Mexico is what's causing the debate of English vs Spanish. Because most the illegals do not care to learn. Granted there are LEGAL immigrants that do not learn the language but this is negligible in comparison to the amount of illegals that don't speak it. Also I think because of the surge of illegals and the problems that come with it, the situation might spike racism more so then racism sparking these actions. Look at it this way, if a different... black man lets say, came up to you every day and kicked you in the nuts, wouldn't you eventually start to build some negative sentiment towards all black people?
I think the racism card is thrown around too often these days. If you hate anyone in any way it seems you can be labeled a "Racist". The underlying difference is this. Do you hate Mexicans because of the illegal immigration, or did you already hate them and your using illegal immigration to vent that anger. One is Racism, the other is justifiable anger. When the Government fails to do it's job in any area, the people and society will find ways to pick up the slack. In this case, since the government can't sort out the illegals we are forced to use "minute men" and the "Who can speak English" method to determine who is legal and who isn't. Is it 100% efficient, no. But it's better then nothing and I think people are tired of nothing being done.

As with all problems in this country, they are all complexly intermingled with other issues. As Deslock touched on, if Companies stopped hiring illegals and were made accountable for it, that would greatly help. Also increasing min wage and paying a little more for the crap jobs might also help attract Americans to fill those roles instead of attracting illegals. Of course if they can get the cheaper labor, why would they pay more. If our Government did their job and actually closed down our boarders instead of finding ways to open them more, illegal immigration wouldn't be as big a problem. We created a whole new division of the government to protect the homeland, WTF have they actually done?! Didn't they just find that the TSA or whatever was still giving out visa for foreign students to come here and learn to fly? The main cause of the 9/11 attacks and they haven't even fixed that. Well I could go on forever on how the government has failed us in many ways, but thats a rant for a different topic.

[Tomahawk]

It wouldn't hurt Americans to learn another language anyway...although my guess is that the most practical one will be Mandarin.

Zab I hope you were just making a point here. Mandarin is spoken in only 3 countries in the world. Although it doubles the total number of ppl speaking the language as speak English, that's only because of the ridiculous overpopulation of those countries. Now I'm sure there are a few other countries that have a small population of Mandarin speakers, but those populations are similar to the English speaking ones you can find in nearly EVERY country in the world.

English is by far the most universal language in the world. Anybody else know that ALL flight procedures and air traffic direction is done in English AROUND THE WORLD??!!??

In the end, if you are going to become a member of a country, you should be able to speak that countries language. If you can't speak your countries language than how are you apart of that country?