I want a neighbor like him

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  • Rdaug27
    Civilian
    • Jun 2006
    • 1448

    I want a neighbor like him

    HOUSTON - Ever since he fatally shot two men he suspected of burglarizing his next-door neighbor's home, 62-year-old Joe Horn has been both praised and vilified for his actions.

    Horn called 911 and told the dispatcher he had a shotgun and was going to kill the intruders. The dispatcher pleaded with him not to go outside, but a defiant Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.

    Some community activists wanted Horn to face charges for the deaths. Supporters of the retired grandfather said what he did was justified under the law.

    After listening to evidence in the case, including testimony from Horn himself, a grand jury on Monday cleared him of the shootings.

    "He wasn't acting like a vigilante. He didn't want to do it," said Tom Lambright, Horn's attorney.

    Lambright said Horn was not a "wild cowboy" who took the law into his own hands after he saw the two suspected burglars, with bags in hand, crawling out of windows from his neighbor's home on Nov. 14 in the Houston suburb of Pasadena. The neighbor was out of town at the time.

    Instead, Horn was a frightened retiree who tried to defend his neighbor's property and when the two men came onto his yard and threatened him, Horn defended himself, Lambright said.

    "He was scared. He was in fear of his life," he said.

    Grand jurors had to consider two issues in the case: the intentional killing of another person and whether the killing was justified either by self-defense or the defense of property, Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters.

    "I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Magidson said. "The grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."

    Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they are in mortal danger. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbor's property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town. It's not clear whether the neighbor whose home was burglarized asked Horn to watch over his house.

    Frank Ortiz, a member of the local League of United Latin American Citizens chapter, said he hopes federal authorities investigate the case further.

    "That's amazing that they would no-bill him with so much evidence against him," Ortiz told the Houston Chronicle in Monday's online edition. "This was no more than a vigilante."

    Horn did not speak with reporters on Monday.

    A large red sign with the words "No Trespass" on it blocked the path to his front door and a handwritten sign on the door said "Please no media," "No Trespassing" and "Do not knock or ring bell." A couple of neighbors also had signs on their doors asking media to leave them alone.

    A few police cars patrolled the area near Horn's home.

    The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

    The city of Pasadena, where protesters and defenders of Horn engaged in counter-demonstrations, pledged to keep its police force staffed enough to protect its citizens.

    Keith Hampton, a Houston attorney not connected with the case, said he didn't expect Horn to be indicted. "This is a real conservative county," he said. "A lot of folks in Houston and Harris County are saying this man was doing a good thing."

    In the 911 call, a dispatcher urges Horn to stay inside his house and not risk lives.

    "Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

    "You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

    After the shooting, he redialed 911.

    "I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."
    Got to love Texas. Don't go stealing nobodies **** and this would not have even happened. I hope this is the end of this for Horn, and I say good job. If I were his neighbor I would be thanking him.
    Last edited by Rdaug27; 07-01-2008, 09:59 AM.
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  • #2
    keyser28146
    Honorary DSA

    Me too. I love this guy. If I went to Mexico, got thrown out because of a narcotics conviction, and snuck back in, I'm pretty sure my family would expect this to happen to me. It's good that somebody is still watching people's property. Makes me want to move to Tx.
    sigpic

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    • #3
      RaTix
      Emperor

      Two illegals down, 2 million to go. God bless Texas.
      "POWER!!! UNLIMITED POOWWWEEEER!!!!!!

      "Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you."
      ?Darth Plagueis

      "Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me."

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      • #4
        Brocman
        Honorary DSA
        • May 2008
        • 3953
        • Brocman

        god bless shotguns too
        sigpic<a href="http://profiles.us.playstation.com/playstation/psn/visit/profiles/Brocman"><img src="http://fp.profiles.us.playstation.com/playstation/psn/pid/Brocman.png" width="230" height="155" border="0" /></a><br/><a href="http://www.us.playstation.com/PSN/SignUp">Get your Portable ID!</a>
        PSN:Brocman
        Warhawk Rank: Brigadier General


        "If we are marked to die, we are enough to do our country loss. And if to live, the fewer men, the greater share of honor...... We few, we happy few. We band of brothers. For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother, be he ne'er so vile. This day shall gentle his condition. And gentlemen in England now a-bed shall think themselves accursed they were not here. And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks who fought with us upon Saint Crispin's Day."
        -St Crispin's Day Speech from Henry V

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        • #5
          Master_Ian
          Civilian
          • Apr 2006
          • 587

          Amen. They should bring some of these immigrant exterminators to Tucson.
          One shot, One kill.

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          • #6
            Dioxin
            Honorary DSA

            He was pretty brazen in saying what he did to dispatch. I'm surprised he got cleared. Also, yes, Texas has the best legal system, unless you're a criminal.
            "F--k Ron Paul!" -Gino in the heat of a losing battle; COD4; Crash.

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            • #7
              Ditch
              Civilian
              • Oct 2006
              • 979

              I sleep with my Glock 23 under my bed, and my 12 guage in my closet next to my sks assault rifle, if anyone comes into my house uninvited I will shoot to kill. and with a smile on my face if it is a bastard illegal mexican
              Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man, that state is obsolete. A case to be filed under "M" for Mankind - in The Twilight Zone.

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              • #8
                Capthemfoos
                Honorary DSA

                I wonder why all these latino leagues all of a sudden pop up on an illegal immigration issue. If they are illegal, then why is it an issue for legal latinos?

                "The world will look up and shout 'Save us!!!', and I will whisper 'No.'". -Rorschach, Watchmen

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                • #9
                  Zabka
                  Imperial Guard
                  • Nov 2004
                  • 4956
                  • DSA Zabka

                  Foos--

                  Because you can't look at somebody and know if they are legal or not. And if people start praising the shooting of people in the back in a circumstance where it was unclear if your life or property is threatened, then I would not be a happy Latino either. Having been subject to racism all my life, people don't bother to make distinctions--they look and they judge. Growing up Asian American in the 70s and 80s when the last war was Vietnam, things were a lot worse back then. But I was born in the States and have never been anything but an American. But most people I have run across choose not to make such distinctions. Take alook at the posts above---people are calling them Mexicans when the article says they are Columbians. Dissecting whether they are legal or not would only happen after the fact. So...yeah, I think it makes perfect sense for Latin groups to come out on illegal immigration issues. Beyond that--I wonder how pumped people would be about this situation if it was 2 15 year old kids were drunk and fooling around.

                  I heard the tape of the 911 call. He sounded perfectly happy to shoot them, not scared. Of course they shouldn't have been breaking into the house..and I don't think he should be facing criminal charges for what he did, necessarily. but I think the reactions of people around the story have been pretty ugly. Really? People deserve to die for being illegal in this country? In some states, killing a person isn't grounds for death. But for some reason, people cheer that a couple of "Mexilumbians" got killed for burglary.
                  Last edited by Zabka; 07-01-2008, 09:43 PM.
                  You're the best! Around! Nothings gonna ever keep you down!


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                  • #10
                    Dioxin
                    Honorary DSA

                    Well said Zab. While all illegals are criminals, not all are bad or dangerous people.
                    "F--k Ron Paul!" -Gino in the heat of a losing battle; COD4; Crash.

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                    • #11
                      Ditch
                      Civilian
                      • Oct 2006
                      • 979

                      my mistake, that what we have here, tons and tons of illegal mexicans. if INS wanted they could get hundreds a day, just go to any job site during day or night alot of them steal from the job sites, I have caught many of them along with a few white trash guys stealing
                      Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man, that state is obsolete. A case to be filed under "M" for Mankind - in The Twilight Zone.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Zabka
                        Imperial Guard
                        • Nov 2004
                        • 4956
                        • DSA Zabka

                        I am all for deportation of illegals--especially the ones who have committed crimes in this country. I do not support soft laws that decrease the repercussions of illegal immigration. I don't know if a fence does very much. I think that they shouldn't be taking jobs that people would otherwise want (employers should be penalized for it).

                        However, I don't think they should be shot and killed in the back for something that is probably worth 3-5 years. The complete disregard for the value of human life regardless of nationality is a bad step for our society.
                        You're the best! Around! Nothings gonna ever keep you down!


                        [URL="http://profile.mygamercard.net/DSA+Zabka"][IMG]http://card.mygamercard.net/community/mondoxbox/DSA+Zabka.png[/IMG][/URL]

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                        • #13
                          Capthemfoos
                          Honorary DSA

                          I mean, I wasn't talking about illegal Latinos and what not. I guess you could say that these people are upset that it is not being investigated any further(Latino groups). But they are upset because the people killed are Latino. Race does not matter in the justice system. Of course, there are possibilities of discrimination and w/e, but thats not the point. What would you think if you saw two people climbing out of your neighbors window with bags."Oh, they're just checking on the property". Thats what a dumbass would say. I think it is safe to say that the "robbers" were doing the wrong thing. Now, Latinos groups can be upset, with the justice system or whatever bone they have to pick with anyone. But there is no justification to be angry because the people were latino. Not to mention they are illegal. Now this all can be void because we have only the person's testimony about the victim's actions and for all we know this could have been murder made to look like a robbery gone wrong. But we can't judge that because we are not the authorities in charge of overseeing the investigation. And I could go on with the arguments each side has, the possibilities, and each one would need a different conclusion. But that would take too long. But I'll just say, Zabka, that you're right in what you said about the circumstances and the reactions one might have. And I'm sorry to all Latinos if I judged them based on some of their illegal status in this country.

                          "The world will look up and shout 'Save us!!!', and I will whisper 'No.'". -Rorschach, Watchmen

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                          • #14
                            Rdaug27
                            Civilian
                            • Jun 2006
                            • 1448

                            See there is one thing wrong with the story ya'll haven't discussed yet, that is the fact that one of these guys had already been deported, and somehow made it back. (not that its that hard) Another story proving that border security is lacking greatly, and something needs to be done instead of just talk.

                            This story to me is more about the law that had been recently passed in Texas that gives people a right to protect yourself and your property, with deadly force if necessary.

                            CASTLE DOCTRINE: Removes the requirement that someone must try to retreat before using deadly force to defend themselves.
                            See before, if someone broke into your house, was on your property, or anything, you had to try and retreat before you could use deadly force. (Not in my house brother, I have kids to protect along with myself and my property. Don't come breaking into my house.)

                            Before anyone jumps my ass about it not being his property, here is the Texas law for protection of the property of others.

                            Protection of the Property of Others

                            "A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect the property of a third person if he reasonably believes he would be justified to use similar force to protect his own property, and he reasonably believes that there existed an attempt or actual commission of the crime of theft or criminal mischief."

                            "Also, a person is justified in using force or deadly force if he reasonably believes that the third person has requested his protection of property; or he has a legal duty to protect the property; or the third person whose property he is protecting is his spouse, parent or child."
                            Completely throw out the fact that they were illegal, because through the law, that has nothing to do with it. Did their race, or color have something to do with Horns actions? That is probable, but according to the law, I believe he had the right to do what he did. I have heard the tape also, and yes he could have stayed in his house and just not gotten involved, IMO that is what's wrong with a lot of people today. My high school band director asked us, "if someone is getting abused, your neighbor, you can hear it, you know its going on, what are you going to do? Anything?" Too many people do nothing. They turn their head and talk about it later.
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                            • #15
                              RaTix
                              Emperor

                              To be clear I said Illegals, not Mexicans. Although let's be realistic. Most illegals are Mexican. And when their nation's own leader makes statements that they are "Taking back the south west one block at a time" I see it as not racism, but national pride and national sovereignty. I don't care if they were Colombian, Paraguayan, or Mexican. I know most other latinos hate being called Mexican, so **** it, let's call them Mexican anyway. If your an illegal latino I'm calling you Mexican because I see no reason why I should show those people any type of respect. These aren't the educated civil ones mostly coming across, it's the criminals and degenerates. Ya know like Cuba did when they released all their criminals here. Are there a few hard workers, yes. But I have seen even the nicest of them do some dirty underhanded ****. If you wanna find out if they're illegal, ask them if they live in a house with 20 other people. Unless he's a Latin King or Cartel front man that bought the house, they are illegal.
                              Here's an interesting and aggravating fact. Did you know that if an illegal gets picked up with a drug charge, he gets one free pass and is not deported (at least in NY). If you have the guy in custody, I say congratulations you found one, and deport his ****ing ass right there.

                              These are also the people shitting the farm fields that's contaminating the food with salmonella. Obviously they don't regard human life that much, so why should I care about theirs. I say all illegals and CEOs of companies that support them should be dragged into the streets and Shot dead. Does this make me a Racist, no it makes me one pissed off American.

                              Would Horn have shot them if they were two 15 yr boys, probably not because well most people know kids do stupid ****. And I'm sure seeing that he would have fired one shot in the air and they would have ran. If not, then they are just retarded and probably should have been shot as well (although maybe just a leg shot to stop them).
                              I agree with Rdaug, that not too many people would look after their neighbors **** like that and take action. I applaud him for doing what he did and as it seems by the Jury, so do most others.

                              Horn did the right thing in protecting his neighbors house, they just happened to be illegal. I see that as an added bonus considering the problems we have in this country right now.
                              "POWER!!! UNLIMITED POOWWWEEEER!!!!!!

                              "Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you."
                              ?Darth Plagueis

                              "Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me."

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